Remy
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Post by Remy on Sept 29, 2010 20:28:34 GMT -7
One of the many gaps that come up between p00p and I is iOS and the App Store vs. the 'Full' web. p00p's point of view (correct me if I'm wrong) is that apps are segregating the web where I believe apps are the next evolutionary step in http. Basically it gives us the tools to break free from the browser and the very restrictive language of html.
Here is John Gruber (Apple Fanboy) Talking at the Web 2.0 conference. The vid is 10 mins and I think would be a good discussion.
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p00p
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Post by p00p on Sept 30, 2010 13:00:25 GMT -7
This guy has the Fruit kool-aid on tap.
Here is my fundamental beef with the Fruit company concerning the WWW; They're turning it into the FWW (Fruit Wide Web). Where their version of the web is accessible through their approved-only apps. It's not a web available world-wide only Apple-wide. This guy's POV is severely skewed by his love for the fruit. He only sees a world with Apple. Well, wake up because the GREAT majority of the world get their 'Internet' through the WWW not the FWW.
By nature, an app-centric web is segregated from any audience that doesn't have the app or chooses not to use it, buy it, have a device it supports or whatever. He hits my worries in the last minute or so and he explains that the FWW is a false dilemma. He is flat-out wrong. He doesn't explain why it's a false dilemma with anything other than saying HTTP development on the WWW hasn't stopped so clearly FWW isn't bad. Nice argument. (nice as in OMFGSUPER WEAK ARGUMENT).
So. Let's try to get this argument straight. Give me a better reason why you think the FWW isn't segregating the web when it offers clearly different and maybe even a better experience of WWW content but is ONLY available to those of the fruity nature (Or stupid-green-robot nature or silly windows-mobile-logo nature or anything that has a specific audience outside a typical browser experience on a typical computer that is not OS or device dependent).
^Riddle me that because the noob in the video didn't use an argument with any weight whatsoever.
ping and game center are dumb btw.
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Remy
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Post by Remy on Sept 30, 2010 19:50:40 GMT -7
As we discussed today when you say 'web' you mean the browser when I say web I mean the web. So I agree apps are allowing others to connect to the web through a different portal but that is not a bad thing. It's the same with Ford and their sync tool that allows car's to connect to the web. In the past we were limited by html to get access to the web and now we have apps etc that make the web all that more powerful.
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p00p
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Post by p00p on Oct 1, 2010 10:08:26 GMT -7
As we discussed today when you say 'web' you mean the browser when I say web I mean the web. So I agree apps are allowing others to connect to the web through a different portal but that is not a bad thing. It's the same with Ford and their sync tool that allows car's to connect to the web. In the past we were limited by html to get access to the web and now we have apps etc that make the web all that more powerful. You mean, when you say web you mean API. As in, the method of transfer not method of display or access. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of anyone you ask would assume the web you see through a browser when you mention "web". Not a protocol or method of transfer. My argument has always been how I hate the trend today in that it's pushing towards a segregated web based on device and carrier. I want the www I see and have access to to be the same www everyone else has. The dude in the video poo poos this issue horribly. It's clear he has lost his grip on anything outside the influence of the Fruit. FWW FTL |
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Post by Mathazar on Oct 1, 2010 15:50:33 GMT -7
TLDW:*
Didn't AOL have a vision of a better web that saved the users from the horrors of an unregulated web too?
When I say web I mean the internet in it's entirety. All traffic that flows. Apple seems to think the web is just content that can be monetized. If they can't sell it to you it's got no place on their web.
*I'll watch this tonight or tomorrow for as long as I can.
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Post by b0lg on Oct 1, 2010 18:30:36 GMT -7
He was a so called fruit lover, but has some valid points... BTW p00p the android and it's app store are really just fruit from another tree....
Googls app tool is even easier to use and deadly. My student worker locked out both of our phones today by using is droid spam text message app he made in 10min. The phones started to work a few hours later.
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Post by Mathazar on Oct 2, 2010 8:57:26 GMT -7
He was a so called fruit lover, but has some valid points... BTW p00p the android and it's app store are really just fruit from another tree.... Not exactly. There is more than just the google app store that you can use with android. I use app brian to let me manage my apps from a browser and make OTA updates. Plus I can "side load" apps that have never been in the app store. And google does not filter apps based on "duplicates funcionality" or because it's a dictionary with a bad word in it. Also as you said yourself google is making it easier to create apps instead of harder. |
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Remy
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Post by Remy on Oct 4, 2010 8:12:16 GMT -7
I'll have to agree with b0lg. You can say app brain are the fruit from another tree. It's all the same. iPhone users have been managing their apps from their phone with OTA updates since the app store first came out. Dev's can "side load" their own apps and let up to 100 people do the same without going to the app store and as of 4.0 Business can now push their own apps to their company on their own without the app store.
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Post by Mathazar on Oct 4, 2010 12:07:50 GMT -7
Dev's plus 100 people does not equal everyone. You have itunes to load and unload apps as a user on ios and that's it. I have other options in addition to the market place with android.
I watched this until he started talking about how the best device for just a browser was the ipad. I think he missed the point of what he was describing.
Total fruit lover. The implication that the Newton was the first PDA was awesome.
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Post by Mathazar on Oct 4, 2010 12:16:44 GMT -7
One of the many gaps that come up between p00p and I is iOS and the App Store vs. the 'Full' web. p00p's point of view (correct me if I'm wrong) is that apps are segregating the web where I believe apps are the next evolutionary step in http. Basically it gives us the tools to break free from the browser and the very restrictive language of html. Why are "apps" good and "flash" is bad? I don't have a problem with apps for the most part. But I think a web based solution would be better. With app's you get into the issue of apple wants it coded this way and you can't add the word ass to it and google wants it coded another way and blackberry wants..... With web you code it once for the standard language and every device that meets the standard can use it. This strikes me as better for the users and the dev's. If there is a problem with the standard then fix that. But reinventing the wheel every time one company gets a better market share than the other helps no one but the hardware sales group. |
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Remy
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Post by Remy on Oct 4, 2010 12:43:22 GMT -7
My example would be CNN. When the I was able to view CNN on my motorola Q it was pretty cool. But it was the 'full' site. I had to scroll back and forth, left and right to read and see everything. It was a standard website but it was useless and frustrating to use on that small screen. So then developers rewrote their web pages to have mobile versions. They dropped the flash controls and just had very simple html and css to show a plain website with only a little functionality. Then came the iPhone with apps written in C. This allowed the developer to take the backend code (what really should be consider the using the full web) and put a very pleasing fully functional front end to that site. Now Google has decided to do the same with Java and Microsoft with .NET. I think this is great because it drives us to the next standard. HTML is very feature less and I believe difficult to create the same experience for mobile then native code can.
But then one would say "But there's Flash!" I don't agree. The Flash control that I write for a full screen website 90% of the time will not translate to mobile device. And we are not talking video here. We are talking a frontend experience to the data on web servers. The button placement, graphics, controls like mouse over and hover just does not work. So if flash was an option 2 years ago when this all started picking up speed, developers would still need to create new flash apps to work well on mobile. Even if I wanted to use flash right now I can't. It's my understanding that current mobile phones are still having a hard time playing flash 10.1 (Adobe sucks)
So I agree with Gruber that Apple is really giving developers and users a way to fully connect to the 'full web' on these new mobile and tablet devices in a way that was not possible before.
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Remy
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Post by Remy on Oct 27, 2010 9:46:37 GMT -7
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Post by Mathazar on Oct 27, 2010 11:59:08 GMT -7
yes clearly the only reason to use HTML5 is apple.
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Remy
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Post by Remy on Oct 27, 2010 12:14:25 GMT -7
I think it's safe to say that the main reason if not the only reason companies are switching to HTML5 for video is the iOS devices. Can you point to anything else?
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Jackdruid
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Post by Jackdruid on Oct 27, 2010 12:19:27 GMT -7
I think it's safe to say that the main reason if not the only reason companies are switching to HTML5 for video is the iOS devices. Can you point to anything else? I don't ever believe anything you say, and that includes content of links you post. |
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