Jackdruid
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Post by Jackdruid on Feb 3, 2010 18:13:09 GMT -7
This video was shared by someone in my econ class. This vid pwns.
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p00p
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ryanhawley.net
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Post by p00p on Feb 4, 2010 0:42:54 GMT -7
OK. That vid is absolutely brilliant. It defines the two philosophies incredibly well in just 7 minutes.
And it's those two philosophies that define the core differences in the modern Left and Right.
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Post by bl00k on Mar 8, 2010 14:55:06 GMT -7
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p00p
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Post by p00p on Mar 9, 2010 15:06:31 GMT -7
Great visualization. I think the author is doing himself a disservice by not sharing it on Youtube though. I'm sure he wants pageviews, but it's not going to be shared like it would be on a video sharing site. sad.
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Post by Mathazar on Mar 23, 2010 7:54:11 GMT -7
I still think a smaller gob'ment would be a good thing. But this is kind of awesome. *Disclaimer - do not go to /b/ for any reason, no matter how interesting you think it might be based on this screen shot.
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p00p
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Post by p00p on Mar 23, 2010 15:49:50 GMT -7
I still think a smaller gob'ment would be a good thing. But this is kind of awesome. *Disclaimer - do not go to /b/ for any reason, no matter how interesting you think it might be based on this screen shot. That's a great post! One of a few jems among many, many atrociousness that come from that website.
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Jackdruid
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Post by Jackdruid on Mar 23, 2010 18:28:19 GMT -7
That was awesome. Posting to FB, with Nikki's uncle blocked from seeing it.
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p00p
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Post by p00p on Mar 24, 2010 9:58:51 GMT -7
That was awesome. Posting to FB, with Nikki's uncle blocked from seeing it. I'm waiting for it dude! Although, you may want to take the /b/ comment out so people don't look for it. -Or convert it to text for a quote. M$ One Note converts image txt really well btw.
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p00p
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Post by p00p on May 5, 2010 12:39:09 GMT -7
Our tazer convo continues here, since I want to hash it out some more. -We all know I love a good argument So you're ok with the cop getting to decide who should be punished and for what? I don't think this vid was a cop even, it was a security guard. Law enforcement and even security guard types are charged with keeping order and protecting whatever they're hired to do, right? They do this using various tactics and tools. I see the tazer as nothing more than a tool like a gun, baton, shield, cuffs or martial art training or whatever. I think there are some good arguments for using tazers being a safer alternative to brute force because it's effect is more dependable and it can be much less easily construed into police brutality or battery or whatever else the litigious dbags can dream up against law enforcement. Punishment comes after the bureaucracy does it's part. Tools like this are used to take care of an incedent as it happens. What else would you have them do, keep yelling at the offender(s) to stop? Throw little pink pillows at them? What's the difference between being tackled or smacked with stick or beat into submission from a simple taze-and-you're-down? I have been punched in the face, tazed (just with a handheld one) and pepper sprayed before and all of them aren't exactly comfortable but none are too extreme to calm an unruly idiot that elects to defy the Police. It wouldn't happen if they'd just chill out and listen anyway. thoughts?
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Jackdruid
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Post by Jackdruid on May 5, 2010 14:23:38 GMT -7
I've never had a run-in with the cops (nothing worth writing about, anyway). Cops are in a difficult position, where nearly every time they do their job, they are in danger of being fired or sued - and that's provided they make it home at all.
Are there some cops who abuse their power, including the "power" to taze? Yes. Are a lot of a-holes drawn to the police force in the first place because of that power? Without question.
That said, it seems to me that America has some of the strictest laws in the world on behalf of the accused/suspected, guaranteeing certain rights of safety and due process - even if I feel a suspect doesn't deserve those rights, they're gonna get 'em.
Additionally, with cameras EVERYWHERE and a 24-hour news cycle full of reporters just waiting for a chance to point out someone else's faults, cops could just as easily start getting criticized for NOT tazing a person who was about to hurt themselves or someone else.
The real argument here is not so much a micro argument of if a cop/security guard should or should not taze in any given instance. They have been given this tool, told to use it and that it gets non-lethal results. Their experiences with the tazer reinforces what they have been taught. Why wouldn't they use a tazer to force compliance? The argument (which I sometimes think is what Mathazar is getting at) is if tazers should be allowed at all - are they the law enforcement equivalent of an iPad? The sweet spot between tackling and using a gun? Or are they too unsafe to justify their use?
Kinda like malpractice lawsuits or criticism against the U.S. military - we expect people in these positions to make the right decision every time, with or without all the facts that we get to pick over afterwards with a fine-toothed, 20/20-hindsight comb.
Sometimes you've just gotta taze now and ask questions later.
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Post by Mathazar on May 5, 2010 15:37:04 GMT -7
Let me preface this with an brief explanation of my fear of cops. I've been talked out of my car over a loud speaker at gun point on the side of a busy road in broad daylight. I was told to kneel in gravel while I was cuffed and searched. The reason that I received this treatment? I failed to signal SOON ENOUGH to make a left hand turn. The cop felt that I needed to give 150 feet warning instead of 100. The ticket I was written labeled me as a Mexican and I was driving a beater car in an upscale suburb outside of Seattle (where I lived at the time). When I told this to the Judge I was told that there had been alot of robberies in the area and I fit a profile. This is the worst experience I've personally had with a cop, but far from the only mistreatment I've received. And far from the worst treatment I've seen and heard other friends go through.
I agree that the tazer is a useful tool and cops should have them. Private security having them is still ok (but I'm more nervous about it). I'd rather that people who carry handguns carried tazers instead. It's a great tool and saves lives. I'd much rather be tazed than beaten Rodney King style.
But the current attitude I see is that anytime a tazer is used it's totally ok because "it's better than getting shot" and "hey man that's funny right there". So we've got old ladies getting tazed on the side of the road and 9 year old girls getting tazed in the head and no one stops to ask if it was a reasonable use of force.
I for one don't think that a cop has the right to do anything he wants to get the reaction out of me he desires. I don't think that the "it's a dangerous job" BS means a cop gets to use violence at the first sign of trouble and that we should just accept it. Cops can be wrong and should be held accountable when they are.
TLDR: I don't trust cops and it baffles me that other people do.
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Post by Mathazar on May 5, 2010 15:52:22 GMT -7
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_GrantOscar Grant is the poster boy so to speak for toning down the speed with witch a cop goes to the tazer. Oscar was forced to the ground by several officers and under arrest. One officer stood up drew what he thought was his tazer and fired on Oscar who was face down and being held by another officer with a knee in his neck. Oscar Grant was killed by mistake in a situation that should have never happened. Watch the video and explain to me why he needed to be tazed at all. With atleast 3 officers present Oscar was taken from a sitting position to a face down position and it under control of the officers. Imagine that this was you, do you think from that position you could have posed any real threat to the officers? Would you have deserved to be tazed? Unlike some I totally believe the officer made an honest mistake. He didn't want to hurt Oscar. Hell he may have believed that by tazing Oscar he was doing him a favor be bringing Oscar under control before something worse could happen. But because of our societies belief that the tazer is no big deal and should be the go to tool for most situation this young man is dead and the officers life is ruined.
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Post by Titahn on May 28, 2010 16:04:35 GMT -7
Interesting ideas, cool presentation.
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Post by b0lg on Jun 1, 2010 9:14:18 GMT -7
@titahn that is interesting.
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Post by b0lg on Jun 1, 2010 9:17:26 GMT -7
What if all these zombie movies are only half right. I mean all science fiction comes from somewhere; we went to the moon after a move was made about going to the moon. You can look at it two ways, creative minds have in insight to the future OR we make things happen. In the zombie case maybe the mass hordes of mindless brain eaters is off a little. What if they are hordes of refugees seeking food and water? Found a new book I am a little scared to read, Resource-Wars These thoughts are based on our, “Americas” Defense review our own military has come to the conclusion that clime change is a threat to national security and will lead to wars over habitable lands and recourses. You can get the report off the DoD page, The Quadrennial Defense Review page 107 is about the climate, there is other things of intrest in it as well!
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